Church and State

[00:00:00] The subject of the separation of church and state is not the easiest one to speak about. And I want to confess right at the beginning that I do not profess to have all the answers. As far as I'm concerned, this is the most difficult problem of theology that I'm familiar with. The relationship of church and state, what the relations of the individual Christian are to both institutions. [00:00:33] I'd like to start out by pointing out seven points of difference between church and state, because this will clarify, a little bit at least, some of the remainder of the message. The students at Goshen will have to forgive me for repeating things that they've heard for the steenth time. First of all, how do we get into each of these institutions? We enter the state by means of our natural birth, but we enter the church by means of the new birth, regeneration. [00:01:09] In the second place, the personnel of the state includes all people, good and bad and indifferent, including children. The personnel of the church is made up of those who have accepted Jesus Christ and are his disciples. In the third place, the head of the state is a man. It may be a group of men, it may be a king, it may be an elected premier, prime minister, but it's just a man. The head of the church is the Lord from heaven, our Savior Jesus Christ. [00:01:45] In the fourth place, the function of the state includes, let me say it that way, includes the maintenance of law and order. The function of the church is evangelism and nurture, winning people for Christ, building them up in Christ. In the fifth place, the state controls by law. All the church controls by the word of God, the power of the Holy Spirit. In the sixth place, the sanction of the state is prisons and fines and sometimes death. [00:02:24] In fact, I think something like 46 of our states exercise the right of capital punishment, putting people to death. The only sanction of the church is excommunication. When the church has completely failed with an individual and can do nothing more and the individual is rather a source of corruption to the church then the only thing left is to sever the relation outwardly which has already been severed with Christ by the individual by his life. [00:02:58] The state in the seventh place is a temporal institution. Some nations live for 100, 200, 500 years, but they're all temporal. They all end at the coming of Christ. The church is an eternal institution. It will go on forever, even after Christ comes again. The church will be with Christ forever and ever. How does it say in 1 Thessalonians 4? Therefore we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [00:03:34] Wherefore comfort one another with these words. That's the church. So those are seven points of difference. Means of entrance, personnel, head, function, method of control, sanction, or how to deal with punishing, and the end. In the second place, I'd like to contrast Romans 12 with Romans 13. You know how Paul writes at the end of Romans 12, Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath, that means unto the wrath of God. [00:04:10] For it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore, if thine enemy hunger, feed him. If he thirsts, give him drink, for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. That's Romans 12. Romans 13 says, let every soul be subject to the higher powers, or to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God. The authorities that exist are ordained of God. [00:04:43] And so on. What does this say then? Romans 12 is addressed to the church. Romans 13 tells what the relationship of the Christian is to the state. Romans 12 says, 1219, no vengeance. The Christian doesn't retaliate. There's to be no vengeance, no paying the fellow back in his own coin. Romans 13 says the state is a revenger to execute wrath. [00:05:15] The end of verse 4. He is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil, upon the evildoer. Romans 12 says, if you have an enemy, do him good. Feed him, give him drink. Romans 13 says, if you do evil, you'd better be afraid, because the state does not wear the sword in vain. Middle of verse 4. [00:05:46] If thou do that which is evil, be afraid, for he beareth not the sword in vain. Romans 12 says, overcome evil. How? With good. Romans 13 says, verse 4, he is a minister of God to thee for good. Rulers are a terror to evildoers. Verse 3, I said verse 4, it's verse 3. Rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. [00:06:21] Do you see the contrast between the ethic for the individual Christian and the ethic for the state? The state maintains law and order by force and the threat of violence. Every time you see a policeman with a gun on his side and a row of bullets in his belt, you know that he's maintaining law and order by force. I think my hometown of Goshen, Indiana, is a very quiet and peaceful place. The police patrol around the streets of that city, I think something like 12,000 miles a month. [00:06:57] And they're not looking for wren's nests either. And they're not looking for blue sky. They're maintaining law and order. Even if they don't have guns pointed out the window, the sheer fact of Goshen police with the license AR so-and-so. In Indiana, I'll give you a tip. Sheriffs and city police all have A.R. on their license. That's a warning. I suppose that means beware. Now, what do we do about this? [00:07:30] If the ethic of the church is to show a spirit of love, even toward enemies, and to overcome evil with good, and if the state necessarily employs force and violence, and even may take life because it does not bear the sword in vain, then what's the relationship of the one to the other? You either have to make out that the same man can take opposite attitudes, one as a private Christian and the other as a member of the state, or else you say there must be a separation here in function as between the church and the state. [00:08:07] I read a book by John Horsch in 1937. It was a German book called The Biblical Doctrine of Nonresistance. It did me a great deal of good. He used this illustration. He said in the Middle Ages there was a peasant who saw his bishop hunting on Sunday, going out with a bow and arrow or whatever it was to shoot rabbits. And the farmer was surprised that his bishop would go hunting on Sunday. And he said, I'm surprised that your excellency would go hunting on Sunday. [00:08:40] The bishop said, I'm not doing this as a bishop, I'm doing it as a prince. Farmer said, if the devil gets the prince, what happens to the bishop? In other words, can I do anything in any other capacity that I cannot be a Christian while doing? To be a disciple of Jesus Christ means to be a disciple of Jesus Christ all the time and to follow the teaching of the word of God for the church all the time. [00:09:12] And so we feel that there is a separation there in function. Now someone will say, then you're pronouncing everybody lost that doesn't agree with you. Oh no, I didn't say anything about that, did I? Am I the judge? Will I be the judge on the last day? No, Jesus Christ will be the judge of all men on the last day. We're not pronouncing judgment here on this point just like we do not on other points. We're simply teaching what is our obligation, and what is our calling, and what is our function as children of God. [00:09:48] I wish I could illustrate what I have in mind here. Maybe I can with a piece of paper. If we would let this black portion down below, let me put it like this. If we'd let this black section here represent the faith, then we'd have in it all men, good and bad. This area where you have people controlled by law and by police force and where nations go to war one with the other and so on. [00:10:19] Up here we have the realm of the church. Now when an individual gets saved, he's lifted up out of the realm where he obeyed, more or less out of fear of punishment, into the realm where he is good because he desires to please Christ. In other words, why do I stop when I get to a stop sign? Do I stop because I'm afraid if I get caught I'll have to pay a fine? [00:10:52] If that's my only motive, I'm not a very good Christian. As a Christian, I ought to obey the laws of the country because I have within my heart such a love for Christ and such a respect for my country that I will desire to obey the laws of the land. Unsaved people frequently obey merely out of fear of punishment. Christians obey the laws of the land only because of love for God and love for man. [00:11:26] I mean, that ought to be true. Sometimes Christians forget themselves. But we're up in the level, if we're born again, we're in the level of the church where we deal with one another on the basis of love, where we follow the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior and our Redeemer. So in the state you have force. You have police force. In the church you have love and brotherhood. We have no police in the church. Ministers are not policemen. They're not FBI. They're proclaimers of God's word. [00:12:01] Do you know the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the word of God are greater to change hearts than any amount of law or police force? Let me try to summarize what I've tried to say. Neither institution, church or state, can do the other one's work. The church can't do the work of the state, and the state can't do the work of the church. In the second place, the church cannot ask the state to adopt the ethic of the church. [00:12:36] The church can't go out and say to a policeman, take off your gun. Romans 12 says you're to overcome evil with good. No, the police has to keep his gun. That's the only language that unregenerate sinners and criminals can understand. The policeman can't go out and say, dear brother, I have the word of God here and according to Matthew 5 you ought to be good. No, that wouldn't work. But the minister in the church, he can preach what the word of God is [00:13:10] and you can see lives changed in the power of the Holy Spirit. Neither institution can do the work of the other. The church cannot demand that the state adopt the ethic of the word of God for the church. In the third place, the state must not interfere with the work of the church. The state has no right to come here and say, now you gentlemen must preach on the third Sunday of every month on such and such a theme. Oh no! No, no! [00:13:41] The state has no instructions to give the church in its work. Men of God have gone to jail for their right to teach the word of God as they understood it. They'll continue to go to jail as long as the true church of Christ is on earth. As long as anybody makes any unreasonable demands in that respect. The state has nothing to say to the church about its work. The church has to carry on its work by the word of God. and not trim its sails to obey the state. I mean if the state asks anything of it. [00:14:13] Now I am thankful to be living in a land where we have freedom. Thank God for that. And may God bless our president and Congress for the good government which they are giving us. I wouldn't want to live in any other nation on earth and I have lived in some others. The fourth thing I want to say by way of summary is that the members of the church make a tremendous contribution to the state. some people don't know that they pay their taxes not because they're afraid they'll get caught [00:14:44] but because they want to pay them they want to be honest with their government they pray for the state I had occasion to write to some of our congressmen in Washington about some matter I was concerned about I wanted to give my testimony and I reported to the men that I wrote to in Washington that I was praying for them And I think every Christian ought to do that. And I think we fail in our church a little bit on that line. I think some denominations are a little more faithful in their public prayers [00:15:16] to pray for the president and the congress and the governors and so on. And I think we should. The word of God commands it. In the third place, first is we pay our taxes. The second is we pray. In the third place, we obey all laws to the best of our ability. Where there's no conflict, of course. In the fourth place, we render honor and respect to our government. In the fifth place, there is the influence of holy living. Jesus said, ye, Christians, are salt and light, preservative and furnishing illumination. [00:15:51] We help to keep society from stagnation, from the ruining effects of sin. And it does have its influence. Some of you may know that in the northern part of Goshen, Indiana, which was sort of an unchurched area, a group of students about 1931, 1935, I guess they moved to North Goshen, from East Goshen, established a Mission Sunday School. And the real estate dealers say that the property value of that community went up after the church got there. [00:16:28] Can you explain that? Why it's simply this reason, many people would prefer to live where there are church people. And the real estate values go up. Even people that aren't Christians often want to live where there's a church. Christians exert a tremendous influence for good in this world, if they live a consistent life. The influence of holy living. And then there's the value of evangelism. Near Waukarusa, Indiana, there lived a drunkard. [00:16:59] The poor man was an illegitimate son who carried his father's name, his father's real name, and was the community drunk. Everybody knew him, all over the community. When he was I don't know how old, middle of life, 50, 60 I suppose, he had a friend who got killed while he was drunk, and this drunk swore he'd never drink again. But it wasn't long until he was drinking and when he was about, I forget the exact age, I think 67, a certain minister, not myself, a certain minister led that man to Jesus Christ and I had the great privilege of baptizing him into the church. [00:17:42] A man who knew nothing about the church, really. He was a drunkard turning to Jesus. And I went to his home. He wasn't well at the time, not well enough to come to the church. And I asked him and his wife to kneel down together in the living room. And I baptized them. And I'm telling you, it was a day of great joy to see this man born into the kingdom as he was through his acceptance of Christ. and I raised him to his feet and I said now as a symbol of Christian love I'll kiss you on the cheek [00:18:14] and I kissed that man I suppose the first time that any Christian had ever given him a kiss and his son was already a Christian a Sunday school worker in another denomination and the son came over and kissed his father and there were tears of joy in that family now that's only a sample of what the church ought to be doing all the time Christian friends let's not sink down till we're satisfied to just have we and our neighbors and our children in the church and never reach the lost. Let's not get satisfied with that. [00:18:48] We ought to be pulling in every month or so. We ought to be winning somebody in a church of this size, in this community, for Jesus Christ. The state can't do it. The state can put criminals to jail and make them worse and make them harder sometimes. Not through the fault of the state. It's the best they can do. But the church can lead men to Christ, to regeneration. Now, do you know the opposite is true also? I said that Christians do a great amount for the state. [00:19:18] Do you know the opposite is also true? That the state offers to us Christians a vast array of benefits. Police protection, laws to control behavior, good roads, fine schools, currency. Our money that we use all the time, that's a state benefit. Mail service. I wrote down and so forth and so forth and so forth. I mean, who could make a list of all the benefits which we're getting from the state? Each one does work that the other cannot do. The church cannot do the work of J. Edgar Hoover, but the state can't do the work of Billy Graham and any humble minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. [00:20:02] God grant that we might realize from God's word, from Romans 12, what our ethic is as children of God, and that we might learn from Romans 13 that our attitude toward the state should be one of obedience and respect and cooperation. Shall we bow our heads in prayer? Dear Lord in heaven, we thank thee for this privilege we have of meditating together out of thy word. We thank Thee for the guidance and blessing which Thy Word gives to us. [00:20:37] We thank Thee especially that it is the guidepost which leads us to Jesus Christ. We thank Thee, O Lord, for the full and free salvation which we enjoy in Jesus. We thank Thee that in Him all our sins are forgiven us, that our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that we have been made Thy sons and daughters, and that we are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ of the glory which Thou shalt reveal to us at the second coming of our Savior. [00:21:10] Help us then that we might walk carefully as people of the light, not of darkness. May we walk circumspectly and may we live in such a way that when we bring the gospel to those who are not lost, They may have realized from our lives that we are truly born again, thy sons and daughters. Bless especially the young people who are here tonight. Deliver them from every form of carelessness or temptation and help them to grow in Christ and to become more like him [00:21:45] and to lay the foundations for a rich life of married happiness Subtitles by the Amara.org community